更新二 2013.06.24
整理我的書籤，找到 Klean Kanteen 有關「中國製造」的回信，
於是連同「磁性」的說明，一起整理在這裡：
1.
I asked Klean Kanteens where are the Stainless Steel Bottles made!
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?p=1479268#qpgOHbt7rFLcPItL.99
Thanks for your interest and support of Klean Kanteen!
Our Klean Kanteens are manufactured in China. Please allow me to give you some further information about our Kanteens and our overseas factory.
Our Klean Kanteens are made of #304 stainless steel, the most common grade of stainless that exists. It has an 18:8 ratio, which is 18% Chromium to 8% nickel. The #304 stainless is the material of choice for the food processing, dairy and brewing industries. The Klean Kanteen has no inner lining to worry about, it is made of a single layer of stainless steel.
As stated on our website, we do periodic lab tests on our Kanteens through a 3rd party domestic lab to ensure that there are no hazardous substances involved with the Klean Kanteen. We have them tested in New Jersey by EMSL by their Materials Science Division. They test the Elemental Composition of Metal. All of the tests have come back with great results. We test for any trace amounts of lead, and the leaching of chromium, nickel, and manganese, etc. We have never found any unwanted or dangerous elements in the kanteen composition. All test results to date are consistent with expected metal components of 18/8 stainless steel.
While these results provide significant confidence for us in the safety and performance of Klean Kanteens, we continue to push our bottles through new tests to confirm and maintain our high quality standards.
Klean Kanteens are made from 100% virgin 18/8 stainless steel supplied by a reputable Taiwanese company.
In addition to independent periodic testing, each container imported into the United States is tested and certified by the USFDA and CPSC to be free of lead. We have decided to certify all of our products with Bureau Veritas (CPSC laboratories) to be in compliance with CPSIA regulations. In order to be in compliance with CPSIA regulations, every single shipment that is imported is certified by the CPSC to ensure that they are free of heavy metals including lead. CPSIA is a regulation that was recently passed banning heavy metals and phthalates from products intended for children. Because Klean Kanteen can be used by people of all ages, we have decided that all of our products need to be in compliance even though they are specifically intended for children. I am happy to know that we did not have to change any aspects of production in order to maintain compliance. Our kanteens have always been free of lead and phthalates. We have just begun to include batch #’s on the bottom of our kanteens so our customers will also clearly see the extent that we are going through to ensure safety. Every shipment that has left our factory starting from June will have this indication. Because your kanteen may be, or will be, from previous inventory, it does not mean that it was not put through the same standards.
China has the longest history of metal working in the world. One thing that was just brought to my attention by the CPSC (consumer protection agency under the FDA) is that stainless steel is going to be one of the few products that will no longer require lead and phthalate testing under the CPSIA regulations. Why? Well, according to them, in the making of stainless steel, the temperatures required to produce the stainless steel are so high, that it would be impossible for lead to remain in its composition even if the iron that was used contained lead originally. We receive many questions about lead, so Klean Kanteen is going to continue to test for it, just to have the results and be able to easilly verify that it is not present, just for peace of mind for our customers as many are not familiar with metallurgy and may not realize many of stainless steels’ chemical properties and contents.
Please see the below information about our testing and manufacturing process.
Yours is not the first letter expressing concern about manufacturing of Klean Kanteen products in China. Let me assure you that Klean Kanteen would gladly avoid the monetary and environmental costs of product transport from an overseas manufacturer if a domestic manufacturing option was available. Based on repeated inquiries with U.S.-based manufacturers, we found that our high-quality, stainless steel reusable bottles simply cannot be made in the U.S. for a price that would allow us to market an affordable consumer product. On that jobs note, Klean Kanteen does support local employment; we currently employ ~40 Butte County residents who enjoy full medical and dental coverage, better-than-average wages, paid vacation time, 401K retirement plans, and positive work environment. That's not small potatoes in this tough economic time.
We have done research regarding having our products made in the US, and discovered two major problems:
Cost. Your price as our customer would be over 3 times what it is currently for a Klean Kanteen. We would likely not be in business at these prices. I know some would be willing to pay more, but that is not realistic for most customers. Already at current prices many of our customers complain about the expense.
American stainless steel manufacturers were not interested in making a product like the Klean Kanteen, and this was somewhat disappointing for us as well.
We were however able to find a quality Taiwanese factory in China, that our employees visit 4-5 times a year for meetings and quality control purposes. We do not own our factory in China, but we have a very good working relationship with them. In fact, we have two members of our management team in China as we speak.
A small team of Klean Kanteen inspectors and oversight staff are in the production facility daily to work with factory staff and ensure quality and standards are consistently upheld. Near daily communication between Klean Kanteen staff here in Butte County and staff in Guangdong Province, China, keeps the operation transparent and fluid with respect to decision-making.
The factory’s labor policy was of interest to us initially and we have found that they treat their employees very well. The working conditions and wages are much better than perhaps you are imagining. In addition to frequent visits, we also conduct 6 month reviews on the factory, focusing on the below questions and more. Some of the questions that we asked were regarding forced labor, child labor, overtime pay, working conditions, etc. The questionnaires have all come back with very positive responses.
We implement the Outdoor Industry Association Fair Labor Toolkit as a guideline to ethically operate our supply chain. Installing the OIA Fair Labor Tool Kit ensures that sustainable economic development and social progress can be realized while basic living standards are preserved and improved. We have a shared responsibility for the social and ethical conditions involved in sourcing these products. We go above and beyond the International Fair Labor Code of Conduct paying closer attention to social and environmental responsibility. I have attached the OIA Fair Labor Tool Kit so you can have a look at the guidelines that our factory operates under.
In addition to the social audits, Klean Kanteen works to maintain standards for fair labor, ethical business, product quality and safety, and environmental protection through a Code of Conduct (COC). Stated simply, suppliers and manufacturers with whom we conduct business to produce Klean Kanteen products must agree to achieve or maintain standards established in our COC.
We have also been audited by LL Bean, William Sonoma, Pottery Barn, NSF and the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). When large corporations approach us to have our kanteens produced for them, they typically conduct a full audit in our factory. They all have concluded that we were a “low-risk” factory. LL Bean audits all the products that they offer and rarely do they find manufacturers that fall into that category. We have ISO accreditation #9000 for Quality Management Systems and #14001 for Quality Environmental Management.
Please recognize that not all factories in China are like the ones in the news these days. Our factory has known that the Klean Kanteen is required to be a safe alternative to other unsafe products on the market today, and we hold them to these high standards. We would not market something if we did not believe in it ourselves. We believe that the Klean Kanteen is and will continue to be one of the safest and best alternative beverage containers on the market, and we strive to uphold these standards for the comfort of our customers.
In a recent report provided by the New York Times titled “How Green is my Bottle”, they calculated that freight/shipping of stainless steel bottles from Asia to the United States, adds only between 1 and 5 percent of the total environmental burden. Klean Kanteen purchases REC’s or Renewable Energy Credits to offset the environmental impact of the electricity and fuels that are used to import our kanteens.
The only other metal option I know of is aluminum. Sigg manufactures their aluminum in Switzerland. They has recently released a stainless steel line as well. It is also manufactured in China for lack of another option. Their new stainless steel line will not be called “Sigg” as not to confuse their customers about the origin of manufacturing.
Aluminum by itself is not a "food grade material" and therefore requires an inner lining to buffer against direct contact with the metal. The materials used to create this liner varies from company to company and should be thoroughly investigated before use. In the past, companies have used a wide variety of products in their liners, including epoxy resin, plastics and other petroleum based materials. Some of these “coatings” contain and release the hormone-disrupting toxin BPA that is found in polycarbonate #7 plastic bottles and most aluminum cans.
Aluminum bottles are usually made of thinner, less expensive and less durable metal, so in general you will find that aluminum bottles will sell for less than Stainless Steel. There are thinner, less expensive, "non food grade" stainless steel bottles on the market now as well, we encourage you to investigate the company, the source and grade of the metal and the warranty on these less expensive bottles.
http://realgreengirl.blogspot.com/20...heres-why.html
We appreciate your passion for the planet and for the search for the best manufacturing options.
It would be great to have them made in the US, Canada, or even Mexico to create the extra jobs and eliminate the challenges of “Made in China.” We have not been able to find a facility domestically that makes smaller stainless items like our kanteens at affordable prices. There are currently no stainless steel bottle manufacturers in the US.
As a small start-up company in 2003, it pretty much came down to:
make them in the US and try to launch a company selling $40-$50 water bottles making it impossible for many to afford, or have them made in China, promote cleaner drinking on a more accessible level, and do the best we can as the company grows.
As you know, we have chosen option 2 and although it is not ideal in all regards, we do believe that we are contributing to better, more healthy planet. We are aware of the arguments to the contrary, and we are doing what we can to continue our sustainability efforts.
We are a small family owned and operated business with consumer safety at the center of our priorities. For the last 5 years we have been testing our kanteens to be certain that we are providing the kleanest alternative to plastic bottles. We would certainly not be promoting a product that we feel is dangerous. Our families use kanteens and we will continue to test above and beyond, providing piece of mind for ourselves and our customers.
I appreciate your reflection to this matter, and please let me know if I can answer any other questions. Have a great day!
Emily Smith
Customer Service Supervisor
4345 Hedstrom Way
Chico, CA 95973
800 767 3173 x322 t
530 345 3568 f
original@kleankanteen.com
www.kleankanteen.com
One planet, one you!
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2.
Why is it that the bottom of my klean kanteen is not magnetic, while
the body of the bottle is magnetic? Are two different types of
stainless steel used to make the bottle? If so, why?
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/so-i-sent-an-email-to-klean-kanteen-asking-why-the-bottom-of-the-bottle-was-not-magnetic.181013289/
Hello Ahmad,
Thanks for your interest and support of Klean Kanteen!
Some stainless steel is magnetic while others are not. There are a few main categories of stainless steel that exist: Austenitic, Ferritic, and Martensitic. The most common type is Austenitic, which makes up nearly 70% of all stainless steel production, and this type contains the 300 series stainless that we use.
Our Klean Kanteens are made of #304 stainless steel, the most common grade of stainless that exists. It has an 18:8 ratio, which is 18% Chromium to 8% nickel. The #304 stainless is the material of choice for the food processing, dairy and brewing industries. The Klean Kanteen has no inner lining to worry about, it is made of a single layer of stainless steel. All grades of stainless steel in the 300 series contain chromium and nickel, the difference is the ratio. Typically it is the chromium and nickel content that make stainless steel non reactive to magnets.
Some of our bottles are magnetic while others are not. This all depends on the work that is done to the steel itself during manufacturing. We use a process called cold forming in the capping of the bottom of our bottles, the bending of the steel to form the bottle neck, and in the forming of the stainless caps. During this cold forming process, some of our bottles do become magnetic in these areas (bottom, neck and vertical seam) but can be magnetic overall.
All austenitic grades typically have very low magnetic traceability and hence show almost no response to a magnet when in the hardened/cooled condition; the situation is, however, far less clear when these steels have been cold worked by wire drawing, rolling or even centreless grinding, shot blasting or heavy polishing. After substantial cold working Grade #304 may exhibit quite strong response to a magnet. This does not changed the elemental make-up stainless steel, it is just a result of stress and pressure exerted on the stainless steel.
Check out this link, it explains the cold forming process and why they become magnetic.
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1140
The magnetism does not change the chemical composition of the stainless steel.
As stated on our website, we do periodic lab tests on our Kanteens through a 3rd party domestic lab to ensure that there are no hazardous substances involved with the Klean Kanteen. We have them tested in New Jersey by EMSL by their Materials Science Division. They test the Elemental Composition of Metal. All of the tests have come back with great results. We test for any trace amounts of lead, and the leaching of chromium, nickel, and manganese, etc. Stainless steel does not leach.
Please let me know if you have any other questions. I hope that helped to explain it, I understand most of us are not familiar with metallurgy, but I hope the information on the link and in this email was helpful.
Thank you,
Emily Smith
Customer Service Supervisor
original@kleankanteen.com
www.kleankanteen.com
One planet, one you!
更新一 2013.05.15
早上收到 Klean Kanteen 的電子報，他們出了誘人的新產品。
Vacuum Insulated, Stainless Steel Tumbler and Cup，在這裡：
http://www.kleankanteen.com/products/cups-tumblers/steel-insulated-tumbler.php
Tumbler 指的好像是底部越來越瘦的杯子，
總之，這個產品就是一個真正的保溫「杯」。
其實 Klean Kanteen 之前就有不鏽鋼杯，
他們希望以此取代一般紙杯，
但是以前的不鏽鋼杯沒有隔熱，
所以就像我的基本款 Klean Kanteen 水壺一樣，
不能裝熱水，否則就會變成燙人武器。
但是這種隔熱的保溫不鏽鋼「杯」就沒有這個問題了，
關鍵是這個杯子的容量很大，
是 16 oz，大約就是 473 ml，已經足以裝下很多咖啡店的飲料。
其他的基本資料包括：
重量：262 克
尺寸：高 16.1 公分，寬 9 公分
美國售價：23.95元，大約台幣 710 元
台灣的代理商好像還沒有進口這個產品，
如果進口了，我猜一個杯子可能也要 950 元左右，
(美國售價大概是台灣的七五折)
實在也不是很便宜…
我比較好奇的其實是「蓋子」。
從網頁上看起來，這個杯子好像真的就和一般杯子一樣，不會有蓋子，
而且 Klean Kanteen 販售的附件裡好像也沒有這種杯子適用的背蓋，
但是要保溫的杯子卻沒有蓋子，這樣不太對勁吧？
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正文 2013.03.06
前陣子到戶外用品店找尋適合的睡袋，
順道看見許多牌子的不鏽鋼水壺，
其中最常見的就是我最想要的
Klean Kanteen。
我對不鏽鋼水壺的興趣是在我決定放棄使用 Nelgene 之後。
我原先都使用 Nelgene 的水壺，
包括原先的 PC 材質和後來標榜不含 bpa 的 Tritan 材質。
也推薦好幾個親戚朋友使用。
後來我認真看了他們網站對 Tritan 的介紹，
有兩個原因讓我決定不再使用他們的水壺：
第一個原因是，他們其實不覺得 bpa 有疑慮，
可以參考這個說明：
http://www.nalgene.com.tw/pc.html
他們改用 Tritan 的原因主要是反應消費者的需求，
這也可以理解，他們是做 PC 材質起家的，要放棄 PC 似乎沒有那麼容易。
但是作為一個消費者，我認為這樣的態度讓我產生疑慮，
如果這個廠商的態度是，
「在還沒確定產品有危害之前，我們都相信產品是沒有害的」，
那麼如果下次發生類似事情，
我很難信任他們會為了消費者而提早做出處置。
另一個原因也和此有關。
相較於 PC，Tritan 是另一種新的材質，
我其實無法確定，這種材質究竟對人體有什麼影響，
Tritan 是 "bpa free"，也就是不會釋放出 bpa 這種物質，
但是，所謂的「環境荷爾蒙」不是只有 bpa 這一種，
我也可以想像，科學家之後還可能發現其他有害物質，
尤其是對 Tritan 這種較新的化學原料而言，
很多屬性應當都還沒有被完全瞭解。
在這種情況下，廠商成為重要的把關者，
如果廠商的態度是如上一段所言那樣，
那麼我就無法信任他們，
也因此，我就決定放棄 Nelgene。
之後，我曾考慮過鋁製水壺，
後來才發現鋁製水壺的內部一定需要塗層，
所以輾轉才決定找尋不鏽鋼水壺。
也因此，我才發現 Klean Kanteen。
我喜歡 Klean Kanteen 的原因不僅僅是他們使用不鏽鋼水壺，
主要原因是，他們網站上對於產品
有很詳細的說明，
解答我一開始許多疑問。
另外，我也在網路上看過兩封他們回覆給消費者的信件，
一封是有關水壺產生磁力的問題，
另一封是問及他們為什麼不在美國當地製造、要選擇要中國製造。
這是我看過最有誠意的回信，
信件內容很長而且很仔細，
其中一封信應該可以在
Amazon 的評價區 中找到，
另一封我已經忘了是在哪裡看到的了。
總之，因為他們回信時的說明方式和態度，
讓我覺得這是一個相對可以信任的廠商。
-------------------------
好吧，我又犯了一樣的毛病，花費太多力氣在前言。
我想談的其實是一個台灣的不鏽鋼水壺廠商。
這個廠商和 Klean Kanteen 的關係是，
他們似乎跟著 Klean Kanteen 的腳步做了一些產品，
我指的主要是水壺蓋子的演進。
可以先看看幾個樣式的比較：
1.
http://www.cy-driver.com.tw/driver/driver-600.html
http://www.kleankanteen.com/products/accessories/klean-kanteen-caps-classic-loop.php
2.
http://www.cy-driver.com.tw/driver/driver-DR1013-70.html
http://www.kleankanteen.com/products/accessories/klean-kanteen-caps-wide-loop.php
3.
http://www.cy-driver.com.tw/driver/driver-plus-600.html
http://www.kleankanteen.com/products/special/ntr_plasticsucks.php
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整體而言，我注意到的這個台灣廠商的產品演化大概是這樣，
他們先出了 600 ml 的保溫杯，
就是類似於第一組連結的那個，但可能有些差異，
後來，他們又出了同樣款式但是容量變成 700 ml 的保溫杯，
最後，他們出了第三組連結中的那個竹面水壺蓋的保溫杯，
同時，在差不多的時間吧，
他們把保溫杯切割成「冷熱兩用保冰杯」和「長效真空運動水瓶」兩個系列，
就如同現在
他們網站的顯示方式。
和 Klean Kanteen 主要做沒有保溫的單層水壺不同，
這個台灣廠商的市場策略很好，
他們只做不鏽鋼的保溫瓶，
而且價位比台灣市面上的日本品牌保溫瓶便宜了一截。
更厲害的是，相較於歐美一般保溫水壺 20 oz (約 600 ml) 的規格，
他們做了 700 ml 的保溫杯，
這就真的是完全為了台灣而設計的，
因為台灣的現泡茶飲店都是以 700 ml 為基準，
而且目前為止我在市面上也只看過這一個牌子有 700 ml 保溫杯。
如果比較 600 ml 和 700 ml 水壺規格，
會發現 700ml 的水壺，雖然只多 100 ml，
但是重量「多重了許多」，
這可能也是 700 ml 水壺原先的弱勢，
不過放在台灣的特殊環境中，700 ml 的水壺反而好用太多。
------------------------------
言歸正傳，總之，看到上面三個比較，
可以發現這個台灣廠商的水壺蓋子，
和 Klean Kanteen 的極為相似。
基本上，Klean Kanteen 水壺蓋的一般規格，是全 PP 材質的，
也就是上面
第一個連結中的水壺蓋。
在 Klean Kanteen 的水壺蓋規格中，
如果要增加不鏽鋼含量、減少塑膠含量，
那就要另外買更貴的水壺蓋，
因此，例如
第二個連結中，水壺蓋和水接觸的部份變成不鏽鋼的，
就是比較高等級的水壺蓋，需要另外加錢購買。
Klean Kanteen 還有更高級的蓋子，
是
全不鏽鋼的，這看來很酷，但是也更貴，
除了全不鏽鋼等級的蓋子，
Klean Kanteen 前一兩年出了一個更特別的水壺蓋，
是使用竹子當成水壺面，
他們取了一個標語：
Non Toxic Revolution 'Plastic Sucks!'
也有一個
研發過程的詳細想法說明，
當然，這種水壺蓋已經有了時尚風格，
又更貴上許多。
---------------------------
不過，如果回頭來看台灣廠商的水壺規格，
就會發現，原先在 Klean Kanteen 而言的特殊規格，
統統都變成台灣廠商水壺中的「標準配備」。
所以，去年我考慮要買不鏽鋼保溫杯時，
我就是因為台灣廠商這個 700 ml 和不鏽鋼蓋體的規格，
最後決定買了台灣廠商的保溫杯。
也是在大約一個月前，我到戶外用品店時，
意外發現了這家廠商的最新產品，「竹製水壺蓋面」的保溫杯。
我一方面感到驚喜、但同時當然也帶著一些質疑。
心底其實是不知道該不該高興：
美國人的「特殊配備」變成我們的「基本配備」。
這種「特殊配備」和「基本配備」的差異，
從台灣廠商的文宣中也可以看見，
相較於 Klean Kanteen 用了一個專門的頁面來介紹竹製水壺蓋，
台灣廠商的介紹中，對於竹製素材其實沒有特別多著墨，
所以，如果只單獨看見這個產品的消費者，
大概就不會像我那樣驚喜，
搞不好還會覺得，這是有點醜、設計失敗的新造型。
-------------------------------
我其實還不知道要怎麼評價這個台灣廠商和 Klean Kanteen 之間的相似。
除此之外，我目前是很開心地使用著不鏽鋼水壺。
.JPG)
